Would you eat your dog? Please don't let them eat my horse!

Many cultures eat horses and dogs. Certain cultures "bond" with these animals and consider them friends. They are in fact just animals. Thousands if not millions of dogs are euthanized every year. People are starving why let them go to waste. As my wise father used to say after witnessing atrocities in WWII "you will eat s*&t if you're hungry enough, I've seen it"

You are free to disagree but I don't think our society has spiraled so far down the drain that we have to start eating the family pets.

So if they weren't pets it would be okay? And you are inferring that other cultures are gutter inhabitants or less than you. Interesting.

Ok, Nick, why is there such a big deal about killing dolphins? Following your thought process we should be able to eat them. Sure, we can't have "Flipper" in a fishbowl in our house, but everyone loves to go to the zoo/ sea world and visit the dolphins... and some places let you pet them. Horses are the same way. Most kids and people have to go visit a horse... they can't have it hang around the house like a cat or a dog... so that is a poor comparison.

I do have a question for you, tho. If you don't really see a problem with eating the family pet, why do people make such a big deal when a chinese fast food restaurant is caught using cat in its dishes? After all... meat is meat... and why let them go to waste, right?

If you don't really see a problem with eating the family pet, why do people make such a big deal when a chinese fast food restaurant is caught using cat in its dishes? After all... meat is meat... and why let them go to waste, right?

Once again culture and I have not heard of any Chinese restaurant caught using cat meat. Another American/Western culture assertion. And IF they do no one can tell the difference apparently. The big deal about dolphins is that they are a protected species because the danger of extinction. Whales are also. Many people eat squirrels would you I doubt it? I wouldn't either or cat for that matter but that doesn't mean I feel people that do are less than I.

better quit eating pork, some people have pet (companion creature) pigs. any animal can become a companion creature.

not all horses, dogs, cats, pigs and so forth are family pets.

@Nick- Yes there are cultures that eat horses and dogs, but that is not yet popular in our culture and I'd like it to stay that way.

I know several people who have pigs as pets. I know one person who has three turkeys as pets.

All of those people are as sickened by the idea of eating turkey or pigs as you are about eating horses. One mans pet is another mans lunch.

I had horse in Belgium. Very gamey, but that's what they eat. I don't really see the difference between horse, cow, lamb, goat, boar or bison. All of which I've eaten.

Slap it on a grille and shazam!

My opinion is that eating of family pets and companion animals should be one of those unacceptable things.

How are horses sent to slaughter companion animals or family pets?

Nick, do you live in a box or something? Just here in Pittsburgh, in the past 10 years, I can think of at least 3 restaurants that were closed by the Health Department because they found a cat or dog in a cooler. This is PITTSBURGH... can you just imagine any of the Chinatowns in the major cities? If you can't tell the difference between chicken and cat, you simple swallow your food, you do not eat it.

@D Luniz by your reasoning the fact that the horse owners are in it for the cash and not for pets would mean you are ok with people selling dogs or cats for consumption?

for a legal stand point yes

I wouldnt like it, I wouldnt buy it, but I dont see a difference in that and all the other animals we eat

Horses sent to slaughter are sometimes race horses that have been deemed non money makers or family pets that they couldn't afford anymore so they sold/gave them to someone under the guise they would be retired to a farm and then they are actually sold at auction, trucked into Mexico or Canada and killed and shipped overseas to be eaten.

I am very familiar with the equine slaughter business. I have a close relative who spent some time as an equine lobbyist.

Again, I ask the question, is a discarded race horse a companion pet?

Are most racehorses really ever companion pets?

It doesn't matter if a horse is a pet or not... it is a moot point. The animal has intelligence... just like the orcas, dolphins, or gorillas. Pigs, turkeys and cows have never been taught to count... have they?

If you can kill and eat another intelligent animal, and I say kill because your demand gives them the need to do it, then I hope that I never see you write about compassion, because you show none here.

The animal has intelligence... just like the orcas, dolphins, or gorillas.

Not sure where you studied biology, but horses are exponentially less intelligent than gorillas, orcas and dolphins. Horse brain structure and function are nothing like those other animals. A horses cerebellum is slightly bigger than a walnut. A horses EQ is just higher than a sheep, 40% less than a dog, 1/3 of a chimpanzee, and 1/6 that of a dolphin. Horses are just barely smarter than any other livestock.

Pigs, turkeys and cows have never been taught to count... have they?

Neither have horses.

Actually, from a purely biological standpoint, pigs are generally accepted as being as smart or smarter than horses. Horses and pigs are both herbivores, herd animals, and prey. Just like cattle. Pigs have a very similar brain to that of horses. Cattle can be trained to do most of the same things as horses from an intelligence standpoint, but are generally accepted as being slightly less intelligent than horses. No, you can't train a sow to jump 3 foot fences, but they can pull a carriage.

Pablo, you could have taken 5 minutes to save yourself the following embarrassment:

Intelligence and learning

In the past, horses were considered unintelligent, with no abstract thinking ability, unable to generalize, and driven primarily by a herd mentality. However, modern studies show that they perform a number of cognitive tasks on a daily basis, meeting mental challenges that include food procurement and social system identification. They also have good spatial discrimination abilities.^[78] Studies have assessed equine intelligence in the realms of problem solving, learning speed, and knowledge retention. Results show that horses excel at simple learning, but also are able to solve advanced cognitive challenges that involve categorization and concept learning. They learn from habituation, desensitization, Pavlovian conditioning, and operant conditioning. They respond to and learn from both positive and negative reinforcement.^[78] Recent studies even suggest horses are able to count if the quantity involved is less than four.^[79]

Domesticated horses tend to face greater mental challenges than wild horses, because they live in artificial environments that stifle instinctive behavior while learning tasks that are not natural.^[78] Horses are creatures of habit that respond and adapt well to regimentation, and respond best when the same routines and techniques are used consistently. Some trainers believe that "intelligent" horses are reflections of intelligent trainers who effectively use response conditioning techniques and positive reinforcement to train in the style that fits best with an individual animal's natural inclinations. Others who handle horses regularly note that personality also may play a role separate from intelligence in determining how a given animal responds to various experiences.^[80]

I think you need to pick up a biology book that isn't 50 years old. Unlike livestock, they can find their own food if need be. You have never heard of needing to herd a group of horses to another pasture to feed... have you? Just on a side note... I would LOVE to see a few pigs pull a carriage... hell, even a little red wagon with a child in it and not kill them.

Pablo, I posted something a little more current up in 1.17, so if you would like to put down your 50 year old biology book and learn something a little more current. Oh, it does appear that horses CAN count, even if it is only to 4, so that is another strike against the IQ guru. It appears that you do a lot of talking yourself, but most of it is easy to disprove... well, except that you have no qualms about eating anything

Embarrassment my ass.

Cite a credible peer reviewed scientific case of any horse in history that has been shown to have the cognitive ability to count.

What you posted above is non science based opinion.

They can't.

Do you know what a cerebellum is?

A horses testicle is bigger than the part of it's brain that it uses to think. The size and construct of the cerebellum is the limiting factor in a horses intelligence.

50 years old biology book?

I guess horses have evolved the ability to do mathematics after I took college biology, anatomy and physiology, bio chemistry, molecular biology and marine biology.

I would LOVE to see a few pigs pull a carriage

Cows, ox's, reindeer, and donkeys all pull carriages. And all of them are almost identical to horses in intelligence.

Obviously they have. Tell you what, instead of a stupid peer review... something that you KNOW is published, not posted... and if it is posted, isn't accessible to the general public. Such a nice thing to demand... kinda like rattling off a trick question. Tell you what... take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IicqCPOQPo

Ummm... yes, I know what the cerebellum is... do you? I can understand all the kicking and squirming that you are doing since you are wrong, but you are simply making things worse for yourself.

Oh... yes... cows are just as smart as horses are. Nothing like proving your level of ignorance by comparing a horse and an animal that has the redneck sport of Cow Tipping involved in it. Go try and tip a horse and see what you get for your troubles.

Don't want to forget the congrats on your schooling... *small golf clap* Nice... that and a buck and a quarter will get you a coffee. Pretty much what you are trying to infer by rattling off all your classes is that everything you've studied... you've eaten... right?

Obviously they have. Tell you what, instead of a stupid peer review... something that you KNOW is published, not posted... and if it is posted, isn't accessible to the general public.

There are thousands of peer reviewed scientific studies published publicly every year, in scientific journals, news periodicals, and the internet. The fact that you cannot find one is pretty telling.

Such a nice thing to demand... kinda like rattling off a trick question. Tell you what... take a look at this:

Seriously? A youtube video? That is your peer reviewed scientific evidence?

That's almost funny.

Pretty much what you are trying to infer by rattling off all your classes is that everything you've studied... you've eaten... right?

Uh no, how on earth did you ever draw that absurd conclusion?

Again, show me one validated scientific study that shows a horse to be any more intelligent than a pig.

Ive raised horses. They have nothing to brag about in the intelligence department!

As far as horses being used for meat, I say why not. If YOU dont want YOUR horse being eaten, thats fine. Its not like putting horses on the menu is going to put YOUR horse in danger. Horses are property, and if someone wants to raise their property to be a food source, they should be able to. This law wouldnt turn every horse into a steak any more than eating cows turns every one into a burger.

I have to agree with northern girl. I think many are aghast at this because it's very much out of our societal norms now. Many of us, myself included, love horses, find them beautiful, enjoy riding them and the bond between a horse and it's owner can be very gratifying.

But is the horse and more or less important than the cows and beef and chickens etc we eat? In actuality...no. If horse meat were to become a legal source of meat they would be raised for such just as cows, beef and chicken...even fish...are now. There would be no difference between them and any other currently accepted meat source. The difference lies within the individual's perceptions of what is or is not acceptable as far as this issue is concerned.

There are cultures who eat cats and dogs. There are cultures who have laws against eating cows. Personally, I couldn't bring myself to eat a cat, dog or horse because I've had the as "pets" and my internal perceptions of those animals are only as "pets" and not food. I have no such issue with cows, chickens, fish, turkey, etc. That's simply where the lines are drawn for me as an individual.

The law is not going to be such that people can come onto your property and simply slaughter your horse for meat just as it doesn't support doing so for cows, etc. People who decide to sell their horse for meat, if legal, are not bad people. If horse meat becomes legal they would fall under the same laws and restrictions governing all such food source and the slaughter houses etc would still be accountable for conditions and humanely killing the animal. Sadly these laws for slaughter houses etc aren't enforced as much as they should be due to not having enough inspectors etc to keep an eye on the number of meat processing plants in operation. THIS is where we need to focus our attention for the sake of the animals and for the quality of our food sources.

slaughtered inhumanely

If you want regulations on how they are slaughtered, then advocate for the method(s) you find humane. It isn't the issue that you created an article about.

Do you eat meat?

What about the tens of thousands of cows, chickens, pigs, etc. being slaughtered for the same purpose? How is this any different? Simpy because you view a horse as a pet rather than a food animal?

Many horses are starving becouse their owners have no money to buy feed for them. There are way too many so they are worth nothing, you would have no trouble finding someone who wanted to give you their horse.

Really? Is it that hard for you guys to tell the difference between cows, chickens, pigs... and a horse. Do you want to know how you can tell the difference? You put them all on the far side of a pen, hold out your hand with nothing in it... and call them. Guess what? The ONLY one that with come over is the horse. That shows a modicum of intelligence. The fact that a horse can be thorough trained to do a lot of things... one of them is not leaving you if you fall from them... is something that can't be said about other pets.

The fact that you guys have no problem shows me your level of humanity, and it makes me sad that so many of us have sunk to eating anything. If you believe that we should start slaughtering creatures that are starving, well... pull out your knife... there are a lot of humans that are starving and there are definitely too many of them!!

the cow at the nature preserve in Auroa comes when they call
and you can get pigs too as well

Unless you are waving food, I have never seen a cow or pig come over just because you called it. I grew up in a small town where we went to a dairy to get our milk, and they had a farm yard our back. As a kid, the only thing that came over to me was the horses... unless I was waving something to eat.

Kinkomaster, you might want to have a conversation with a biologist before you go on and on ranting about the difference in intelligence between animals.

When you placed horses at the same intellectual level as higher level primates and higher level marine mammals, It became extremely clear that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

Pablo, you stated that Kinko simply doesnt know what he is talking about, well couldnt the same be said for you also?

Really? Is it that hard for you guys to tell the difference between cows, chickens, pigs and a horse

Again, there is almost no difference between the brain size, structure, function or capacity of a horse, cow or pig.

Do you want to know how you can tell the difference?

First, you dissect and compare the brains. Secondly you do various cognitive experiments to all of the animals, Thirdly, you compare the results of your scientific evaluations based on the studies of the brains and the cognitive tests. ( I am married to a molecular biologist )

You put them all on the far side of a pen, hold out your hand with nothing in it... and call them. Guess what? The ONLY one that with come over is the horse.

That has nothing to do with intelligence. That's called conditioning. You can train a hampster to do tricks.

That shows a modicum of intelligence.

No it does not.

The fact that a horse can be thorough trained to do a lot of things... one of them is not leaving you if you fall from them... is something that can't be said about other pets.

Countless other large bodied similar brained herd animals can be trained to do the exact same things as horses. Ox, Reindeer, Camel, Cattle even Moose can be trained. They are just not physically designed to do the same things horses are.

Pablo, I posted something a little more current up in 1.17, so if you would like to put down your 50 year old biology book and learn something a little more current. Oh, it does appear that horses CAN count, even if it is only to 4, so that is another strike against the IQ guru. It appears that you do a lot of talking yourself, but most of it is easy to disprove... well, except that you have no qualms about eating anything.

Pablo, you stated that Kinko simply doesnt know what he is talking about, well couldnt the same be said for you also?

Was I asserting that a horse shares the same cognitive ability as a gorilla, orca or dolphin?

Kinko did.

She was wrong.

Gorillas, orcas and dolphins are substantially more intelligent than horses.

Do you think I am wrong in the assertion that gorillas, orcas and dolphins are substantially smarter than horses?

Would you like me to present further evidence that gorillas, orcas and dolphins are smarter than horses to prove that I know what I am talking about?

Well, I just know from personal experience that a horse can open gates, fetch, Rear, make different faces, load into a trailer on cue, hug, kiss, sit, lie down, respond to voice command, to stay on command and drink from a hose and many more that I am not going to name and the reason I know these things is because my horse did these so yes, I believe in what Kink stated and no I don't need further evidence because I had first hand evidence and that is definitely better then anything I read or you waste time showing me.

I don't care which one is more intelligent! All you are doing is picking nits... and that is because it is all you have left. The fact of the matter is that they are ALL intelligent. Just because you didn't understand that we have learned more about horses since the 1950's and you couldn't place a horse in the same group due to intelligence... now you want to keep them out due to level of IQ. How nice...

If you could read... maybe the word should be... interpret... correctly, and read my post the way I wrote it. It said that horses have intelligence... (pause)... just like orcas, dolphins and gorillas. I never said they were as smart as. I never gave the Top 10 list of smartest creatures and put the horse at #3. I stated that they were intelligent... PERIOD.

Just because you didn't understand that we have learned more about horses since the 1950's and you couldn't place a horse in the same group due to intelligence...

Wrong again. We have learned plenty about horses in the last 50 years. That does not make them any more intelligent than they were 50 years ago. It just means we understand more about what they do. Seriously, did you ever take a biology class?

now you want to keep them out due to level of IQ. How nice...

Uh, IQ IS intelligence. You do know what the IQ stands for don't you?

If you could read... maybe the word should be... interpret... correctly, and read my post the way I wrote it. It said that horses have intelligence... (pause)... just like orcas, dolphins and gorillas

This statement is wrong at worst, and disingenuous at best.

You intentionally used gorillas, orcas and dolphins in the same sentence as horses in a blatant attempt to infer a level of intelligence that a horse simply does not have. That is clearly misleading. Backpedaling now is even weaker.

A more accurate description would have been...

"Horses have intelligence..... just like pigs, donkeys and cattle"

Because those animals have similar levels of intelligence to that of a horse.

Quite simply, through this entire debate you have asserted that horses are somehow smarter than other herd animals that we eat.

They are not.

You did this to justify our not eating them.

You don't eat them because you have an emotional attachment to them.

I get that. I'm not telling you you should eat them or feel differently about them.

However, the assertion that you should not eat them because they are more intelligent than the other things we eat is wrong. From an intelligence standpoint they fall in between cattle and pigs.

IQ is Intelligence Quotient, why does it sound like that is a surprise to you. Maybe you should have taken a few more reading comprehension courses in college to understand what people are saying, because you seem to REALLY be struggling.

I'm not backpedaling, it appears I keep needing to clarify things for you. If I wanted to compare horses to pigs, donkeys and cattle... I would have. I didn't because I believe they are smarter than pigs and cattle, and since donkeys are "little brother", I never thought it necessary to bring them up.

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/features/horseintelligence-119.shtml

I hope this Dr. has enuff credentials for you to understand.

I realize that you have no problem eating any animal, no matter how smart it may be, and I have no personal attachment to any horse. The problem is that I am disgusted by any person that would belittle such a noble animal, and suggest that they are dumb enuff to make a good burger out of. I think you need to learn a little more about horses before making a statement that they are nothing more than a herd animal. If that is all that your classes taught you... you were short changed.

I hope this Dr. has enuff credentials for you to understand.

Exactly what part of that article scientifically shows shows that horses have any greater cognitive abilities than other animals that we eat.

In fact the author specifically points out habituation, desensitization, pavlovian and operant conditioning.

These cognitive abilities have been known in horses for years.

They also exist in pigs.

I think you need to learn a little more about horses before making a statement that they are nothing more than a herd animal. If that is all that your classes taught you... you were short changed.

I have been around horses my entire life. My children grew up in barns. My oldest is a dressage trainer, and still does three day eventing. My wife is a biology professor. She teaches biology and animal physiology among other subjects.

I never said they were nothing more than a herd animal. Yes, I said they were a herd animal, because they are.

What I said was that they are not significantly smarter than the other animals we eat. I have been consistent with that.

You made a veiled attempt to equate horse intelligence to higher level mammals.

I called you on it.

You have consistently made the assertion that horses are somehow much more intelligent than other herd animals. They are not.

One last time, horses are not significantly smarter than cows, and are no smarter than pigs.

Show me one scientific study that proves that horses are smarter than pigs.

Or do you think we should not eat pigs and cows because they are intelligent too?

I feel the same way about deer and rabbit. But some people love it. To each it's own. How about Bison? Not my favorite but fair.

As I mentioned above, you all seem to miss the fact that they have a spark of intelligence, and killing an intelligent creature is beneath us. As humans, we should be better than this. What next... will we breed monkeys and gorillas to kill them for food? How far are you all willing to go? We know how far the chinese and japanese go... and you all seem to make a giant fuss when you find out that they cook it here. Stop... you have the perfect name... try it out.

Some cultures will kill the monkey and eat the brains raw. That's life. Westerners seem to think that if people don't act like us they are scum. Get a clue folks people have been eating whatever they can find before there were Westerners.

Nick, I don't think anyone is scum for what they each. I simply believe that they have not evolved enuff to recognize the difference between an animal that has intelligence, and one that is much lower on the food chain. Yes, the practice of eating monkey brains is a vicious and disgusting thing. Do you know how it is done? Would you like me to explain to you exactly how they eat monkey brains? You can make the call after that, huh?

Do you know that there was a whole tribe of people that got infected with mad cow disease because they ate cow brains, and then ate the brains of those who died from mad cow disease? Gross, Huh? Ewww. Brains- BAD idea.

As I mentioned above, you all seem to miss the fact that they have a spark of intelligence, and killing an intelligent creature is beneath us.

Then you must be a strict vegan and don't eat any animal flesh of any kind, Kinkomaster. Again, that would be your choice but please don't try to make your choice the law for everybody. If you've ever lived on a farm like I have, you would know like I do that cattle, pigs and chickens also have a "spark of intelligence". Pigs are well-known for their intelligence (they pick up tricks faster than dogs do), and all of these creatures are certainly intelligent enough to know when you're walking toward them carrying feed, because they come running toward you every time. I saw it every single day when I fed and mucked out the critters. Yet I had not even a scintilla of regret about slaughtering a steer, a poor layer or pullet, or a pig for that night's dinner. I'm an omnivore, and creatures like cattle, pigs and chickens are subject to being on the menu any time.

What next... will we breed monkeys and gorillas to kill them for food?

People have also been living in caves, dying from simple infections, marrying their relatives and having sex with 12 year olds

Nice straw men arguments. Thought the topic was eating horse meat.

Miss the "what next", did ya? Plus... they do eat monkey brains already, or are you not aware of this little fact, hmmmm? Yes, topic is horse meat. My question is how far are we willing to go to indulge in meat? Do we NEED to kill horses as meat? Is McD's running out of patties and looking for something else to keep their McDoubles at a buck?

We have been using horse meat for pet food for almost 40 years now. Just because there are no slaughterhouses in the US will not put an end to that.

Yes, I am aware of that little fact, but your false equivalency of horse meat being the slippery slope to eating monkey brains is utter BS.

Its not a matter of whether we need to kill horses for meat, its should we be able to. I say yes we should. If you dont want to eat horses, dont, but dont tell me what I can and cannot do.

You are trying to elevate the horse to a position higher than where it is. Horses are in the same catagory as a cows or deer. They're all stupid herd animals. They have their place in this world- right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

My dog used to like his horsemeat mixed into the mashed potatos and gravy.

First off... no slope to eating monkey brains... it is being done. If you knew anything about the world outside of the US, you would know this.

Hey, if you want to eat a noble creature, you go ahead and do it. I just hope that karma comes back around and your fate lies at the hooves of a horse. Maybe it will bring you some mashed potatoes and gravy.

Yes, I know they eat monkey brains in other parts of the world. Happens to be in the same area where horse meat is often consumed, hence the slippery slope reference. Currently eating monkey brains is not done in the US, and neither is eating horse. Did I really have to spell it out for you, or were you just pretending to be dense? I heard eating meat plays a big role in brain development...

karma comes back around and your fate lies at the hooves of a horse

Nice! You are classy individual, arent you?

Classy? Hey... I'm not the one talking about eating my mount. If you are worried about karma and a horse being too stupid, why not ride a pig... I understand a lot horse eaters think they are smarter anyways.

Ya, ya, ya... I know... you said you only want the option to eat horse... since their place is right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy. Whatever... just remember... karma isn't something I wish upon you... it is the proverbial wheel coming around.

And, I will say I have never seen a cat give someone a big bite in the ass when they piss em off. I hate cats.

No, but I've watched a cat shred someone with there claws. Dogs have done that and worse... but they live in our house, wowed. Maybe the horse that nipped you was trying to get your attention and you were ignoring it... not like it can tap you on the shoulder. heh heh

No, It wasnt my ass, it was my @!$%# step dads that was trying to be a dick to a horse. He was riding her rough, and it bit his ass. I never laughed so hard. She walked right up to me after and we took off. I love horses too. Not nearly as much as utter, but I do. I used to ride that one bareback with nothing more than a guide, and she was the best damn horse I have ever been on. Except that time she nipped because she didnt like the tall grass. We learned that real quick.

He was riding her rough, and it bit his ass.

I had that happen once, but it wasn't a horse.

Thats what she said...

Why thanks, I kinda see the middle in this, I also see them as pets, in america it shouldnt be something to "eat", but in other countries its tradition in some senses. And other animals are suscepted to the same circumstances, although horses are by far the most pristine and useful, and closely resemble other "pets". I do see your side very much, but since I am a meat eater, who am I to judge? I dunno, mostly funds are something that could be used else where. Like going in to put this country back on track social security and deficit wise. I feel that politicians like to drain these programs for no good reason other than they can do it. Where are the concepts that began this country? :)

You are correct. I said Alpo used to have horse meat as a main ingredient.

The only way to be absolutely sure horse meat is not used in your dog’s food is to read the label. Look for dog foods with ingredients like lamb, duck and chicken. The first three ingredients should be specific proteins. Avoid dog foods with unspecific ingredients like “animal” by-products, “animal” meal and “animal” digest.

http://www.thatmutt.com/2009/01/25/is-there-horse-meat-in-dog-food/

I surely hope you dont mean me utter :( If so, I am so sorry.

Your welcome Utter, I have seen some of the comments and don't understand some people's logic on this issue but you have my support and Ill back you...*Big hugs*

Thank you, Kim! I'm not sure why the general response has ranged from callous to vitriolic. I am open to dissenting opinions but some of the comments have been unneccessarily hostile.

Let me ask you, do you eat meat?

Pablo, I'm sorry are you talking to me or Utter? If you are talking to me then no, I don't eat meat.

Hey pablo, Lay off. Do you eat dogs and cats, or just cows, turkeys, chickens, and pigs?

Hey pablo, Lay off. Do you eat dogs and cats, or just cows, turkeys, chickens, and pigs?

I travel globally with my job.

I don't think I have ever had dog or cat, but I have also eaten things that I did not know what they were. That being said, if someone put dog in front of me, I would probably eat it. (and as a point of clarification, I have two dogs as pets and a daughter that does 3 day eventing)

I have had rabbit on countless occasions. Pheasant, guinea pig, muskrat, even rat. Pigeon, quail, and just about everything in between.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what distinction people are trying to make here.

Is this a problem with eating meat in general, or just horses?

Is it a problem eating companion/family pet animals, or just animals in general.

I could understand not wanting to eat your pet, but if a horse/dog/cat is not a pet or companion, where is the issue?

Lots of people right here in the US have cows, pigs, rabbits or turkeys as pets. We don't eat their pets, but we eat the same animals.

there are bomb and truffle sniffing pigs
and some company was use cows to sniff people to test their deoderants

Ive never seen anything useful for chickens tho Im sure someone has found so use for them beyond finger licking good

I agree Utter with everything you just posted here and you are welcome! Back in the day you are exactly right, horses were used as transportation to get from Point A to Point B, they are a great part of our history and have been around since 1500AD when they rode their horses all over North and South America and no one had ever seen a horse before, so without these beautiful creatures they would not have been given a huge military advantage. So lets keep the respect where it is due people.

Chickens, cows, pigs have not.

Chickens maybe, but cows and pigs certainly have the same capacities as horses and dogs/cats. Pigs are actually closer to dogs than cats are when it comes to social interaction with humans.

Try to explain to a person who has a pet rabbit that they are not socially attached. I live in one of the largest major metro areas in the US. I can count at least 10 restaurants of the top of my head where they serve rabbit.

Their contribution has always been in the form of sustenance.

And everywhere outside of the US horses have been as well.

I'm not suggesting that we begin eating horses dogs and cats. But it is nearly laughable to suggest that we do not regularly eat animals that people have established personal bonds with.

My cousin had a pet lamb for years when I was a kid. She had as much of a bond with her lamb as she did with her horse or her dog. We did not eat her pet lamb. But we sure as heck had lamb once in a while.

I used to have alot of these animals as pets, so I see the distinction. We didnt eat them.

I think the major issue with Utter is the fact that they are a very smart and compassionate animal, and slaughterhouses are notoriously cruel. Especially in a country where there is absolutely no market for the meat for human consumption, as far as I can tell. No one wants to eat it. May be present in some food without knowledge, but not by choice.

Ive never seen anything useful for chickens tho Im sure someone has found so use for them beyond finger licking good

How about eggs?

Chickens come to a point where their egg capacity falls off to just about nothing... like the females of all species.

but if meat is meat why don't we just start eating people?

because we have horses and other more palatable options.

believe me, if we needed to eat people, we would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571

I'm certainly not looking specifically for the Secretariat Burger with Cheese on any given menu, but given that I crossed the "is it ethical to use these creatures to further our own survival and make ourselves more comfortable?" line WAY WAY long ago...

Utter... you're creeping me out...

palatable is a matter of opinion right?

opinion changes radically when options decrese, is more my point.

so why not people?

1) we need people to breed with...or have for the majority of our existence. We probably don't need very many anymore, we've pretty well got the procreation thing down to a science and could keep the species around indefinitely with far fewer people than we currently have...but that taboo is pretty well engrained into our culture, it ain't going away any time soon.
2) religious reasons- people are sentient, the other animals are not, according to most religions. The religions that believe the other animals are sentient tend to be vegetarian.

I just think that the animals who have historically served (in this country) as our friends, pals, buddies etc should be off the menu.

I gotta admit, I don't really feel as attached to horses as you seem to, or others might. I see their value as transportation, as beasts of burden, and even as entertainment, but I've never felt the desire to develop a relationship with a horse.

I certainly understand that bond, but I've never felt it. I guess that's why it doesn't freak me out that they might be considered cattle. I can understand that it would be difficult for someone who loves an animal to see it eaten, though.

I'm not religious so that wouldn't keep me from barbecuing my neighbor :)

well, good luck swaying public opinion on that one...and you also have to consider that your property value might drop if his house stays vacant for too long... just sayin' there's more to think about than just whether to use a sauce or a dry rub on old Mr. Fufferman.

I understand not feeling an attachment to horses when you don't interact with them

I've interacted with them enough to form an opinion. I grew up around horses, my next door neighbors had some, my cousins had some. I worked at a summer camp where the kids rode daily, my daughter currently takes lessons...

What have you bonded with outside of another human being?

dogs, cats, etc. would I eat either species? probably, depending on context. My guess is that if either was particularly good eatin' I'd have tasted them by now, and special breeds of them would be kept as cattle like chickens, pigs, etc.

I think the real reason horses aren't kept as feed cattle is because their meat isn't any better than cow, and horses don't produce as much meat from the same amount of feed that cows do.

I would like to keep it that way since a change is for all intents and purposes currently unnecessary and costly! Don't forget it'll cost us money to let this bill go back into effect!

so why all the emotional appeal with the "please don't let the president come to my house and kill my pony" bit?

In what context would you consider eating Fido and his buddy Miss Kitty?

immediatel and most plausibly? If I was visiting south korea and someone offered me a Shih-tsu stew.

I was visiting south korea and someone offered me a Shih-tsu stew

I've got to believe you did not say that out loud before you typed it.

I've got to believe you did not say that out loud before you typed it.

It sounds much more appetizing when I say it with a Korean accent.

Hmmmm... all by yourself, huh, Buzz? Do we need to send someone by to check your basement for the remains of your last meal... girlfriend... same thing. I think you need to go back to the south pacific... about a few hundred years ago. Following that practice, you also need to wear one of their body parts to retain their power... what of your parents do you have on?

True enough that the soul is neither tangible or corporeal, but there are societies in the world that believe that since that intangible soul exists within a body, then eating the (dead - did I need to say that?) body would also consume the soul. They would not believe that the soul leaves the body when a person dies. Animals have personalities - would that mean they have souls?

By the way, why was my post #4 deleted? I have seen no explanation nor have I received an email about it.

KInkomaster: Did I say I practised cannibalism? You assume too much and your post is insulting.

Buzz, did you read your comment in 11.0?

Stranger in a Strange Land. Read Heinlein's novel. It espouses the philosophy that we should eat our friends and relatives, because in that way their soul continues to exist through us.

"we should eat our friends and relatives"? If you don't believe in it, you are pushing a book that does, and by you pushing the book... it appears that you condone it. The simple fact that you suggest eating your friend... Buzz, come on... be as insulted as you want, but if you are going to be telling people to eat their friends... it makes it sound like it is something that you've done before. Hey... I'm not hatin', I'm just sayin'.

There are societies on Earth who in fact practise it. If you consider your horse your friend, you should eat it.

Ok, we part ways here dude.

My dog is dying of lung cancer. She has been a wonderful family pet, and an important part of our family. She will likely not make the new year.

I'm not eating her.

I deleted it. No letter or notification needed because it wasn't done by newsvine

FYI, newvine does notify the poster if their comment is deleted. Even if the author deletes it. They ask you whether you want to contest the deletion and if you do they will review it and repost it if they agree that adheres to the COH.

It's possible that Newvine is no longer providing that information to anyone. On one of my seeds two comments by another Newsviner were deleted, not by me, and I have found out that the commenter has not been notified as well. That's why I asked the question. But Nick, you raised the point that deletions that are not contrary to the COH, or off topic, being deleted by the seeder can be an offence. Just because the seeder disagrees with the Newsviner's comment is not a reason to delete it. Check that out Utter-Disbelief - it's in the COH or the UA.

By the way, I'm not Hannibal Lecter, but I am a science fiction fan, and I did study Anthropology.

"we should eat our friends and relatives"? If you don't believe in it, you are pushing a book that does, and by you pushing the book... it appears that you condone it.

Your logic is completely flawed. It't YOUR assumption that I'm PUSHING a book by referring to it. I never said WE should eat our friends, I said the BOOK said it. My comment was directed at giving another viwpoint on the subject but at no time did I say I agreed with it. And yes, what you said was insulting.

They don't all start off as pets but they do have a noble history and the distinction of having helped us perhaps more than any other animal has. Dogs may be the closest thing as far as guarding us but for building this country well...

Cattle have played just as important a role if not more important a role if the building of the nation.

Horse have done a remarkable job of moving us, cattle have done a remarkable job of feeding us.

The advent of the railroad and the automobile made horses obsolete. Cattle still cover most of the midwest.

Exactly! So why are we trying to eat the movers (horses) when

Maybe because..

The advent of the railroad and the automobile made horses obsolete.

Look, I have never suggested that we eat horses. I have simply made the argument that A) they are, and can be food, just like any large herd animal. And B) They are not significantly different as pets, or food, as other large herd animals.

The only reason people do not like the idea of eating them is the emotional attachment.

Utter, It is not morally acceptable to me to eat beasts of burden

Fortunately, nobody is trying to force you to do any such thing.

I could not eat an animal that for thousands of years worked along side men and women and children to make their lives worth living.

There are a few living things that have been around for thousands of years, no beasts of burden are among them.

Of course, what the issue boils down to is on of law, and nobody has really come up with any good reason why law should prevent this.

I am asking to have a bill reversed so that the government does not FUND horse slaughter houses

And if you read the article, you would know that it doesn't involve funding horse slaughter houses at all.

I am not asking for that to be illegal here

You're asking for the legal way for horses to be slaughtered to be removed, leaving horse slaughter houses illegal in the US.

Utter, I think you are being trolled. Just my humble opinion. It's like a hobby for him. He is misunderstanding in purpose. Check out his article "When the moderator is the problem" to get a little insight. Remember, above he trolled the definition of "absurd". Get the picture?

♥

Horses could soon be butchered in the U.S. for human consumption after Congress quietly lifted a 5-year-old ban on funding horse meat inspections, and activists say slaughterhouses could be up and running in as little as a month. Slaughter opponents pushed a measure cutting off funding for horse meat inspections through Congress in 2006 after other efforts to pass outright bans on horse slaughter failed in previous years.

The article itself starts off pointing out that the ban was on USDA inspections. If you actually bother to go and read about the subject, you could see that there was no funding of horse slaughter, and there still will be no government funding of horse slaughter.

. No where did I say that this bill will make it illegal to have slaughter houses.

No where did I say that grass is a plant, but that doesn't make it somehow not true. The ban made it no longer legal to slaughter horses in the United States. Removing the ban makes it legal again.

I've made it clear that my ulterior motive is to keep horses from being eaten but the petition as listed above does NOT make it ILLEGAL!

You are opposing what makes it once more legal to slaughter horses in the US. That is reality. I don't see your article where you oppose the mandatory USDA inspections for slaughterhouses or the court decision that prevented horse slaughterhouses from paying out of pocket for USDA inspections.

Utter, I think you are being trolled. Just my humble opinion. It's like a hobby for him. He is misunderstanding in purpose. Check out his article "When the moderator is the problem" to get a little insight. Remember, above he trolled the definition of "absurd". Get the picture?

Well grump, thanks for your trolling, lack of anything relating to the subject, 'contribution'.

Don't you remember, USDA inspections of horse slaughter facilities?

Your statement is absurd

It doesn't appear that you are familiar with the word 'absurd'.

You used it in such a way as would mean 'completely correct', but that is not the actual meaning of it.

There are very few species of animal that can even live to be one hundred years old. None of the animals you mention can live for anything even remotely approaching one thousand years, let alone more.

I scoff at Ringo. Isn't scoffing fun?

are you being obtuse on purpose

No, I'm having decent reading comprehension. Something that if you or grump had would allow you to read and understand the point I made.

He disproved your assertion

Looks like you need to look up 'disproved', since by your usage, you obviously don't know what it means.

If you disagree, then I challenge you to find even ONE of those animals that has lived for even one thousand years.

@ grump LOL...I can't even scoff at him because he isn't even worth that now that he is acting like an 8 year old.

And thank you for demonstrating that you have nothing of value to contribute.

Actually Ringo now you are just projecting.

Thank you for further proving the truth of my statement.

Cant say I know I any vegan dogs or snakes.